Fri isolasjon og kjeler Gratis kjeler En ny kjele koster vanligvis 2300, ifølge Energy Saving Trust, så dette er en fantastisk freebie. Hvis kjelen ikke er ineffektiv, bare ødelagt, kan du bli tilbudt en reparasjon i stedet for en ny kjele. Tilbudet inkluderer montering, selv om det kan være en ekstra kostnad hvis en ingeniør trenger å utføre ekstra arbeid for eksempel hvis den trenger å flytte eller du trenger ekstra radiatorer. Du bør bli fortalt om dette på forhånd. Hvem kan få det Du er sannsynlig å kvalifisere hvis: Du får skattekreditter og har en husstandsinntekt på under 16.010 og. Du får inntektsbaserte ytelser, for eksempel pensjonskreditt eller inntektsstøtte, og du har barn, funksjonshemmede i husholdningen eller er over 60 år. Du vil ikke kunne få en gratis kjele hvis du bor i en boligforening eller er et råd leietaker. I stedet vil dette bli arrangert gjennom egne ordninger. Kriteriene er komplekse, så en rask måte å sjekke om du kvalifiserer, er å ringe til energisparingstjenesten og svare på noen få grunnleggende spørsmål på 0300 123 1234 (England, Wales og Nord-Irland) eller 0808 808 22 82 (Skottland). Se også tilbydere kriterier i Hvordan få det. Hvordan får jeg en gratis kjele Bare ring en leverandør for en gratis vurdering. Du er fri til å velge ethvert energiselskap som tilbyr avtalen du ikke trenger å være kunde. Alle avtaler pågår, uten begrensning på antall gratis installasjoner. Hvis du søker, er du glad i å høre dine gratis kjeleopplevelser. Hva er tilbudt av hver leverandør E. on Søk på nettet eller ring 0330 400 1183. Se også kvalifikasjonskriteriene. E. on tilbyr erstatningskedler hvis din nåværende er over 5 år gammel og ikke fungerer som den skal. EDF Energy Call 0800 096 8634. Hvis kjeleinnretningen krever ekstra arbeid, for eksempel ekstra radiatorer, kan EDF i noen tilfeller be om et bidrag til kostnadene. Det vil gi deg beskjed på forhånd. Npower Kontroller at du er kvalifisert på Npowers nettsted eller ring 0800 072 1741. SSE Fyll ut en forespørsel på nettet eller ring 0345 078 3248. Se kriteriene for støtteberettigelse. SSE sier installasjoner er underlagt en undersøkelse. Hvis du bytter kjelen, sparer du ikke nok energi for å hjelpe det med å oppfylle målene sine, eller det er tekniske problemer, kan det be deg om å betale noe mot kostnaden. Hvis dette skjer, er det verdt å prøve en annen leverandør i stedet. Hvor mye kan du spare Energibesparende tillit sier at oppvarming står for rundt 60 av hva folk bruker hvert år på energiregninger, så en effektiv kjele gjør stor forskjell. Avhengig av kjelerens alder, kan en skinnende, ny, effektiv en spare deg til 350 år. Dens sannsynlige nye kjeler er toppen av mange homebuyers ønskeliste, så dette kan øke husprisen din også. Hurtige spørsmål Hvilken type kjele må du ha Du må ha en ødelagt eller ineffektiv kjele som er minst 5 år gammel. Hvis du har en ny-ish, arbeider med A - eller B-kjel, vil du sannsynligvis ikke kvalifisere deg. Dette avgjøres i hvert enkelt tilfelle gjennom en fri inspeksjon. Det er basert på en rekke faktorer, blant annet kjelens effektivitet, alder og tilstand. Energiselskapene vil vanligvis bare erstatte gasskjeler, ikke olje. Hvis du ikke allerede har en kjele, kan du ikke få et nytt system installert. Hvor lang tid tar det? Energiselskapene sier at det vanligvis tar fire til tolv uker fra når du først søker for å få kjelen installert. Montering av kjelen tar vanligvis fra noen dager til en uke, men det varierer avhengig av egenskapen. Fri vegg - og huleveggisolering Hule vegg - og loftisolasjon er verdt rundt 800 og kan skive rundt 300 energibrev hvert år, og energibedrifter tilbyr dem gratis til bestemte grupper. Hule veggisolasjon. De fleste hus bygget siden 1920 har et gap mellom indre og ytre vegger. Fylling av hulrommet med isolerende mineralull og skum betyr at kaldluft holdes ut og varm luft forblir inn. Loftisolasjon. Opptil en fjerdedel av hjemmene dine kommer varmen ut av taket, men du kan løse dette ved å legge mineralull under takstene. Hvem kan få dette Noen tilbydere gir isolasjon til egnede boliger uavhengig av inntekt, mens noen krever at du mottar visse fordeler som pensjonskreditt. Se tilbudsberettigelseskriterier nedenfor. Du kan ikke få fri hule vegg - og loftisolasjon hvis du bor i en boligforenings eiendom eller er en leietaker i rådet. Tanken er at de vil ordne å gjøre dette for deg selv om deres egne ordninger. En rask måte å sjekke om du kvalifiserer, er å ringe energisparende tillit og svare på noen få grunnleggende spørsmål på 0300 123 1234 (England, Wales og Nord-Irland) eller 0808 808 2282 (Skottland). Hvordan får jeg fri isolasjon Bare ring en leverandør for en gratis vurdering. Du er fri til å velge hvilken som helst leverandør du ikke trenger å være kunde. Nedenfor er en liste over de store seks tilbyderne som tilbyr fri isolasjon. EDF Energy. Ring 0800 096 8634. Npower. Kontroller at du er kvalifisert på Npowers-området eller ring 0800 072 1741. Hvor mye kan du spare? Energisparetjenesten regner med at kavitetsisolering vanligvis koster rundt 500 for å installere (inkludert byggearbeid), og kan lagre et gjennomsnittlig tre-roms hjem opptil 160 år på sin regninger. Loftisolering koster ca 300 og kan spare 140 år. Rask spørsmål: Vil huset mitt være egnet for hule veggisolasjon Ikke alle husene vil være egnet for hule veggisolasjon. Ifølge energisparende tillit. ditt hjem vil vanligvis være egnet for hule veggisolasjon hvis: Dens yttervegger er ufylte hulromvegger. Hulrommet er minst 50 mm bredt. Murerverket eller murverket av eiendommen din er i god stand. Den ble bygget før 1990 (de fleste nyere hus vil allerede ha isolasjon). Veggene er ikke utsatt for drivende regn. Du vil vanligvis ikke kvalifisere hvis. Du bor i en leilighet og kan ikke koordinere med alle andre leietakere. Hjemmet ditt er tømmer eller metall innrammet, eller laget av naturstein eller betong. Hvis du har fuktige problemer. Energisparende tillit sier at du bør sortere disse ut først. Du må kanskje betale ekstra for stillas for å få isolasjonen montert. Disse kostnadene er ikke inkludert i noen tilbud. Kan hulveggisolering øke sjansene for fuktige problemer i hjemmet Når det er installert riktig og i passende egenskaper, kan isolasjon av hulrom isolere bedre energieffektivitet og gi besparelser på boligvarmeregninger. Det har imidlertid vært en rekke rapporter om fuktige problemer som oppstår etter at kavitetsveggisoleringen er installert. Dette kan skje i egenskaper hvor det ikke er hensiktsmessig å montere hule veggisolasjon der yttervegget er utsatt for kraftig vinddrevet regn. Disse forholdene er mest sannsynlig i Vest-landet, inkludert vest for Skottland og Vest-Wales, og deler av Cornwall, Somerset og Dorset. Problemer kan også oppstå hvis installasjonen gjøres feil, og etterlater hull i isolasjonen som kan forårsake kondens og mugg. Hvis du opplever problemer etter å ha installert kavitetsveggisolering, er alt arbeid utført av registrerte installatører dekket av en 25 års garanti som overvåkes av Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency (CIGA). Under denne garantien er firmaet som installerte isolasjonen ansvarlig for å korrigere eventuelle skader eller fjerne det hvis det er nødvendig. Hvis firmaet har sluttet å handle, overgår ansvaret til CIGA. Jeg kvalifiserer ikke for fri isolasjon, hvordan kan jeg få det billig Hvis du ikke kvalifiserer for ordningene ovenfor, se etter en installatør på National Insulation Association-siden. Energibesparende stoler regner med at kavitetsisoleringen typisk koster 450 til 500 for installasjon og loftisolering på 300. DIY-ruten kan trene ut billigere for loftisolasjon på ca 150. For mer hjelp har Homebuilding Magazine en praktisk trinn - trinnvis veiledning for å isolere loftet ditt. Få våre gratis penger Tips Email Hva betyr over Hvis en kobling har en av det, betyr det at det er en tilknyttet lenke, og derfor hjelper det MoneySavingExpert gratis å bruke, slik det spores til oss. Hvis du går gjennom det, kan det noen ganger føre til betaling eller nytte for nettstedet. Det er verdt å merke seg dette betyr at tredjepart kan bli navngitt på eventuelle kredittavtaler. Du bør ikke legge merke til noen forskjell, og linken vil aldri påvirke produktet negativt. Pluss redaksjonen (de tingene vi skriver) påvirkes aldri av disse linkene. Vi tar sikte på å se på alle tilgjengelige produkter. Hvis det ikke er mulig å få en tilknyttet link for den beste avtalen, er den fortsatt inkludert på nøyaktig samme måte, bare med en ikke-betalende link. For mer informasjon, les hvordan dette nettstedet er finansiert. GRATIS MoneySaving email Få denne gratis ukentlige e-posten full av tilbud, guider forsterkeren sin spamfri Barclays kunder forlot ikke å bruke kort og foreta betalinger etter tekniske vanskeligheter Første verktøyet stiger til standardpriser med 9,7 - sjekk NÅ hvis du kan lagre prisen på frimerker for å stige neste måned kjøp nå for å slå turen Atom Bank lanserer markedsledende faste besparelser få 2 på en års konto Southern Rail åpner klumpsummekompensasjon til alle kvalifiserte pendlere kan du kreve 100s Hvor mange trinn gjorde du i 2016 gjorde jeg 8,170,127 treningssporingsarbeid En viktig advarsel til alle ansatte i Storbritannia Vil du ta 500 nå eller 1000 på et år Og hva som sier om deg Hva Brexit betyr for din økonomi i 2017 MSE Pub Quiz 2016 Svar Hvordan maksimere bonus Nektarpunkter på Sainsburys for å spare penger på dine daglige nødvendigheter. STOP ALT Halv prisvalg og bland søtsaker på Wilko 10 freebies for å hevde på bursdagen din, inkl. kaker, 5 Kropps butikk og brow voks Få 13 for shopping for ju St 5,45 i Asda med disse fem kupongene, inkl. Febreze amp Pantene shampoo Post-Valentinsdag Billige chocs kan du finne emUpdate: 29 november Here8217s er en av de mest engasjerende artiklene vi alltid har publisert. Er det fortsatt aktuelt nå med fremskritt innen karbon - og karbonreparasjon. Let8217s høre det Av Kurt Gensheimer Så du er i ferd med å mosey videre til din lokale sykkelbutikk og slippe mer mynt til din første ekte motorsykkel enn de fleste betaler for en hel motorsykkel. Du er enten ny til sporten av sykling eller du har ridet i noen år, lært tauene på en gammel aluminiumsramme som er en sesong unna dumpsteren. Du har sett alle vårklassikerne, Giro, Vuelta og Touren og tar notater på hvem som rider hva. Du har drooled over dine egne lagkamrater høy-dollar rase rigg som har mer karbonfiber på den enn den internasjonale romstasjonen. Du har gjort all din forskning, testet alle de siste, høye dollarene, karbonfibermaskiner, og du har plukket vinneren din. Checkbooken er i hånden og klar til å besmitte hver eneste dollar i din sparekonto, og alt som er igjen å gjøre er å forhandle med butikken, slik at du i det minste har litt penger igjen for å kjøpe noen indre rør. Men før dine visjoner av storhet løper uheldig og sjekklisten blir mer hul enn Landis Maillot Jaune, er du sikker på at karbon er det rette rammematerialet for dine behov. Ikke ta det galt, karbon har faktisk sine fordeler, men den siste karbonens vannet synes å være tungt knyttet til bandwagon-mentalitet, hva proffene gjør, er det som massene også vil gjøre. Det var sant på 70-tallet med utborede komponenter, på 80-tallet med store mengder hårgel og Briko-nyanser, på 90-tallet med de forferdelige lycra shortsene som var utformet for å se ut som blå jeans, og i dag med karboncykler. Og hvorfor bør ikke karbon være populært? En ramme og gaffel veier mindre enn en seks-pakke brygge, de har kjempefint vei dempende evner, er stivere enn en I-stråle i utgangspunktet, og viktigst av alt, har karbonfiber en ubestridelig kul faktor. Som et bevis på populariteten til karbon, skreddersydde sykkelbyggere som laget sitt navn i stål, nå over til karbon. Navn som Steelman, Serotta og Independent Fabrications tilbyr alle bankkonto-busting tilpassede karbonrammer. Photo Thumbnails (klikk for å forstørre) formrevel rebolledo01 desalvoroad01 10 sycipcross04 8220Så hva du har er en 150 pund rytter på en sykkel designet for en 220 pund pilot. Hvordan tror du turen er Stiv. Rigor mortis stiv. Så stiv at det kan føre til uforutsigbare håndteringsegenskaper, noe som uunngåelig fører til at en mellomstorder krasjer hans hjerner ut.8221 Virkelig har jeg sett veien på vei som følge av denne uunngåelsen. Alle gode poeng. Åpenbart vil ikke mange lytte fordi de vil passe inn i karbonmengden eller føle seg godt om de brukte på en karboncykel. Hver gang vi bygger opp et fint stål eller en TI-sykkel som veier 16 eller 17 lb8217s, er 8220kids8221 i butikken overrasket og sier noe som 8220Når jeg er i8217m, må jeg få en fin tilpasset sykkel.8221 Resten av oss (noen ikke alt det gamle) bare le og fortell dem å gå videre og brenne disse dollarene. 8220Også vær ekstra forsiktig når du laster den karboncyklen på baksiden av bilen din. En feilplassert stumpformet gjenstand vil gjøre din splitter nye 5000 karbon racing maskin mer lamme enn en rasehest med senebetennelse.8221 Haven8217t sett dette. 8220 Med riktig forsiktighet vil en stålramme trolig overleve deg, mens en karbonramme nesten ikke vil overleve kredittkortgjelden, vil du bli innkjøpt i, uansett hvilket rammemateriale du ender med å kjøpe. 8222 Haven8217t sett dette heller. Jeg tok nylig levering av min spesialbygde Electric Warrior av onde sykler. For livet til meg kan jeg ikke forstå hvorfor noen ville betale det samme eller mer enn jeg betalte for å få en av rackcyklen. Ikke bare var sykkelen min bygget til mine spesifikasjoner, men jeg kunne jobbe med byggeren for å lage en veldig søt malingsjobb. Du vil se en annen sykkel som min ut på veien. Jeg sier 8220fri deg fra gruppe think8221. Mens jeg elsker håndverket og passformen til min tilpassede Jack Koehler stål sykkel, tar jeg vanligvis karbonsykelen når jeg vil ri. Hvorfor fungerer det bedre. Nå er passformen til min tilpassede ramme helt perfekt. Med et bånd og noen kreative komponenter, matchet jeg det med min nåværende karbon CX-1 masseprodusert ramme. Karbonrammen har noen metallbiter for holdbarhet, og mens it8217s ikke er den letteste tilgjengeligen, er den merkelig lettere enn min stålramme. Så hvorfor kjøre en tyngre sykkel. Eldre materialer som stål, aluminium eller titan var toppmoderne en gang, og jobber fortsatt bra . Så gjør 56 Chevys. Vi lagrer våre klassikere for 8216Sunday show off rides8217. Jeg gjør det samme med min kule gamle stål sykkel. Skal jeg kjøpe og kjøre en 8216new8217 56 Chevy for en daglig sjåfør Nope8230not når det er flere effektive enheter tilgjengelig. Gammelt innlegg jeg vet, men jeg likte artikkelen og som en ny syklist jeg setter pris på både karbon og stål. DH8217s kommentar ovenfor er trolig den eneste med ekte fortjeneste som utelukker forretningsstrøm bias og klassisk 8220roadie8221ego. Hvis du vil komme deg ut av 8220group think8221, prøver du å sende ny og rebuyere en kvalitetscykel som brukes. En lett stålramme (som tilsvarer omtrent 50 tyngre enn en lett karbonramme) er den samme robuste rammen som forfatteren holder blabbing om. I8217ve sett lette stålrammer med bukser. Som karbon, må du behandle stålrammer nøye. Mens din lette karbonramme kan sprekke med miscare, vil stålrammen ruste deg. Jeg kunne ikke enig med Don Hanson. en stålramme er mer som en nostalgisk gammel car8230 den har sin klassiske appell, men på de fleste måter er den bare utdatert. Jeg har en stålramme som jeg rir og elsker og elsker å ri. Men det er så mye gammeldags flatjordsprodukter her, jeg må chime inn. En 3 lb stålramme er IKKE den samme som en 5 lb stålramme i holdbarhet. Rørene vil faktisk knuse. Jeg ødela en veldig fin 3,5 lb stål ramme og det krøllete som i går8217s avis. Carbon er 8220it8221-materialet i overskuelig fremtid, med god grunn 8212 det kan være utformet som ikke annet materiale der ute, it8217s er sterkt som noe når det er designet og produsert godt, og it8217s viste seg å være veldig pålitelig. Hincapie carbon steerer didn8217t feiler i Paris-Roubaix. Det var en aluminiumsstyrer. Bill dette er en veldig gammel samtale, men et spørsmål. Hvor mange miles ville man forvente å komme seg ut av en godt utformet og produsert karbonfiberramme. For eksempel hvis jeg trente 200 miles i uken på karboncyklen, ville jeg gjøre 10.000 mil på ett år. Er det om livet til en god karbonramme når du trener med den hastigheten. Enhver som betaler mer enn 2,5k for en sykkel, og ikke får en tilpasset sykkel av noe materiale - er nøtter. Marc, mange mennesker passer til størrelsen på lagerstørrelsen helt fint. Hvis en masseprodusert ramme oppfyller dine kriterier og kostnader 2499, hvem skal du bedømme om det er en god beslutning? Min sykkel er ikke smykker, og jeg investerer ikke i det for sjeldenhet. Jeg pleide å ri på stålsykler. Jeg eier ikke en eneste lenger. Av de fleste folks8217 vurderinger (som bevist av materialsalg for high-end sykler), er Ti eller karbon å foretrekke for godt bygget stålrammer. That8217 er bare objektive data basert på millioner av individuelle innkjøpsvalg, ikke min bias. Den prostale bias illustrert av mange her, gjenspeiler bare ulike behov og ulike verdivurdering av egenskaper. Når det gjelder det falske holdbarhetsargumentet: de fleste don8217t reparerer bøyd stål. Min 18-årige Trek 5200, til tross for skremsel fra massevis av reiseovergrep gjennom årene, forblir en trofaste steed som jeg anser hver bit så vakker som en sykkel produsert med 1800-tallets konstruksjonsteknikker. Jeg frykter ikke delaminering mer enn du dreader rust-skjønt. Begge problemene er praktisk talt ikke-eksisterende på de nyeste rammene i dag8217, til tross for de isolerte eksemplene som idealogues trotte ut i et forsøk på å bevise deres materielle overlegenhet. Kjør hva du liker, og ikke kast bort tiden din prøver å overbevise andre om at rammematerialet ditt på en måte er overlegen. Total verdsettelse er et personlig valg. At8217 er ikke objektive data 8211 du8217er setter inn en antagelse om hvorfor salgsvolumet er som sådan. Høyvolumsalg av cf og ti rammer kan lett påvirkes av faktorer som popularitet, like enkelt som det kan påvirkes av teknologiske datapunkter som levetid og holdbarhet. Total verdsettelse er et personlig valg, men punktet i artikkelen er å stille spørsmål til hvorfor den populære oppfatningen av verdsettelsen trer tungt mot cf sykler. Hvis du virkelig tror på din endelige uttalelse, bør artikkelen være et ikke-problem for deg. 12. januar 2017 Spot på Jason 8211 får på sykler (i motsetning til Industrial Group 8216Sheep On Drugs8217) er det viktigste han kjøper hva de8217re fortalte eller solgte, bare for å passe inn i 8211, se deg rundt og du kan få en mye bedre håndterings sykkel Det kan faktisk være nesten like lett (og noen kan argumentere lettere) laget av stål. Mer fortjeneste kan gjøres fra en karbon sykkel, og bare glem vekt, fokus på håndtering. It8217s nå 2017 og folk gjør fortsatt valg, ikke alle de informerte valgene er karbon 8211 min neste vil være stål. Oh, og flytte over Carbon, min forutsigelse er at skumstrukturert Graphene vil være neste jeg en en vakker, tilpasset stålbike 8211 en Waterford R33 8211 som veier under 18 kg. Jeg har må betale for å oppnå denne vekten 8211 Campy Record i hele, FSA K-Force karbon kranser, ITM UnicoUnica karbonstamme, stolper, stolpe, Chris King-sett, Selle Italia Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL-hjul, Speed Play X18242s, Easton SL90 karbon forkand og en Selle Italia SLR Ti-sadel som veier inn på 165 gram 8211, men en karbonramme lurt ut med samme konfigurasjon ville koste så mye eller mer som min sykkel. Denne sykkelen rider som en drøm 8211 glatt og responsiv 8211 og takket være karbonfronten, setepost og rammeprofil absorberer sykkelen de fleste uregelmessigheter i vei og har ingen buzz som jeg kan føle. I tillegg får sykkelen min den typen svar som forfatteren snakker om fra andre rytter og sykkelhandler. Min sykkel er vakker og sjelden (racing grønn med gamle skole hvite paneler), og de fleste avicionados i vet setter pris på det så mye som enhver produksjonslinje karbon sykkel de kommer over. Jeg har også reist med sykkelen og hadde det betjent i store butikker i Denver, San Diego og Boston 8211, mekanikerne elsket sykkelen og kunne ikke tro hvor lett og hyggelig å ri den var. Kort sagt, min rigg har hver eneste WOW-faktor som en hvilken som helst karboncykel på veien. Jeg sparer opp for en annen sykkel, men i stedet for karbon blir det enten titan Seven eller IF 8211 jeg har bestemt meg ennå. Jeg liker denne artikkelen som jeg for tiden kjører en tiårig stål sykkel og tenker på å gå på karbon når høsten nærmer seg rundt i år. Jeg 8220get8221 alle poengene på fordelene ved stål og fullt abonnere på 8220don8217t kjøpe noe du ikke har råd til å erstatte8221 teori. Karbonrammer virker risikabelt for meg, for bruddpotensialeksemplene gitt i denne artikkelen. Men på den annen side kan ikke mange av oss besøke messer eller jakte på egendefinerte sykkelbyggere. Hvor kan vi se slike stålsykler nevnt her Kanskje enda viktigere, ville en testkjøring være mulig Selv om googling 8220Bayliss8221 bare viser lunkne koblinger, og ingenting om byggeren selv. I dag høres en moderne stålbike inn, men kanskje utilgjengelig for de fleste ryttere. Jeg tror en god stål sykkel er som en god lyd tube amp. Ja, den nyeste toppmoderne teknologien har fordeler, men det er noe om stål (og rør) that8217s bare klassiske og høyre 8211 noe som kan måles, bare opplevd. For de som bare er avhengige av vitenskapelige målinger og data, vil denne setningen høres ut som flat-earth-thinking og that8217s fine. Bunnlinjen, det er plusser og minuser til karbon, ti, aluminium og stål. Kjør det du elsker. 24. september 2012 I8217m riding a 2003 LOOK KG461. Det er fullstendig karbon (det bruker aluminiumsbelter), men jeg elsker turen og I8217d sammenligner den gunstig med stål. Ikke tilpasset, ikke stål, og jeg fikk det til en fantastisk avtale. It8217s stiv, skjegg, og fra det jeg hørte i8217ve, bygget it8217s sterkere enn andre fulle karbonrammer. En 8220wet noodle8221 er hva den ern8217t. Noen gode poeng her. Ved 6821758243 og 230 lbs. I8217m på slutten av bellkurven. Jeg solgte nylig en Calfee-karbonsykel og erstattet den med en IF-sykkel. Kalven var en Cadillac karbonrammen spiste opp støtene, som er tilfeldig vei vibrasjon som ingen virksomhet. For ikke å nevne, det var sexy som helvete å se på. Men det var stiv nok til å synke godt, og det hadde et elendig fartsvobble problem (couldn8217t selv zip my jersey på 15 mph uten at sykkelen ønsket å gå ned). Jeg vil kritt min negative karbonopplevelse opp til det faktum at jeg ikke er standard sizeweight for syklister generelt. Når det er sagt, følte karbonrammen seg tydelig. Det overlevde en god kollisjon uheldig, og jeg tror jeg kunne ha kastet den ned et trapp med ingen dårlig effekt. Legg til at Calfee kan reparere en skadet ramme med ikke for mye innsats, og det er fortsatt en god del. Jeg tror bare at karbon som et sykkelmateriale fremdeles kommer fra sin barndom. IF Crown Jewel i stål har ingen av disse problemene (og faller som det8217s på skinner) for bare en mindre straff82111.1 lbs (som er 0,5 av hele pakken når du inkluderer meg). Det er litt så glatt som karbon og langt mer selvtillit inspirerende på nedstigninger. Men som en pilot som har jobbet med utvikling av romfartsmaterialer, var den virkelige grunnen jeg byttet, feilmodi. Karbon feiler på en måte: Plutselig og katastrofalt (Airbus ror, noen). Stål kan tøffe, bøye, knekke osv., Men you8217ll vet vanligvis what8217s kommer. Jeg var motvillig til å stole på livet mitt på et materiale som kunne komme unraveled på en rask nedstigning. Det er fordeler for begge materialer, og etter hvert som karbonrammeteknologi forfaller, vil personlig smak regulere materialvalget så mye som sammensetning. Jeg er forelsket i stålrammen min og vil ri den i mange år. Hvem gir en rotter et hvilket materiale som er bedre Betyr det virkelig om folk liker karbon eller stål bedre Skal vi virkelig tilbringe tid med å argumentere for personlig smak Er menneskene som eier karbon sykler, skal lese denne dårlig skrevet artikkelen, ha en åpenbaring, og gå og kjøp en stålbike fordi over tid ble titusener av oss, inkludert 8220Pros, blitt dumme og glemte at stål er så mye bedre. Kurt Gensheimer, gå frivillig på et suppekjøkken og gjør noe som virkelig betyr noe gtgt170kph er ikke klassisk. Når var siste gang noen av oss gikk så fort Aldri. Avtalt. Den videoen er 15 år gammel. Jeg tror at karbon har fått en liten bit bedre siden da. Stål ville ha brutt av sveisen. I8217m bare sier8230 få litt aktuell info. Har en all stål Columbus tubed Bianchi fra tidlig 908242s og en aluminium Bianchi (2001). I8217m leter etter en aluminium med karbon sete forblir eller en all karbon. Stål-sykkelen går ikke hvor som helst og har it8217s fordeler, men gjør ikke nærmer seg akselerasjonen aluminiumet tilbyr. Kjører jeg No8230, men når det gjelder å lage et grønt lys, er det en forskjell. Kullseterør for hver hjalp ganske litt med å ta ut noen av veien buzz og jeg leter etter en karbon gaffel for stålet av samme grunn. Alle vil ha sin mening, men jeg kan sikkert si om man ville være bedre enn en annen, men jeg er sikker på en ting i en gruppetur og prøver å holde tritt med pakken, det er en pris som skal betales for vekt og offer av rammen absorberer noe av energien når du prøver å akselerere. Så mitt stål er godt for turer i landet, sykkelstier, pendling og løpende ærend, og det var derfor jeg hadde den utstyrt med en trippel vev. Min treningssykkel jeg vil ha og trenger for å være rask og vil gå med alt materiale eller kombinasjon av det som vil være komfortabelt, men effektivt, og jeg tror ikke at stål passer til den ordren. Det er hva det er for dine behov, jeg antar. Stål kommer tilbake med makt og det er reell fornyet interesse for både dagens stålcyklar og klassikerne. Det faktum at dette allerede er den 29. posten til artikkelen sier mye. Ta din klassiske Masi, Pogliaghi osv. Til en nåværende USA-sykkelhendelse, og folk vil gi mer oppmerksomhet til sykkelen din enn vinneren av Cat 1-2-løp. Vi har nå hatt 4 alle stålkriterium i sommer, og selv om vårt største felt var bare 15 ryttere, var stålrennen den mest populære i dag. For 95 prosent av rytterne gir stål mest mening, men vi er alle berørt av markedsføring. Inkludert meg, i tillegg til stålflåten, eier jeg noen få plast sykler selv. For 2010 vil vi fielding et alt Steel racing team for å konkurrere side om side med karbon gutta. Sjekk ut bildene av våre nåværende løp og racer sammen med noen klassiske bilder på MenofSteelRacing. Dette minner meg om Monty Python 8220Likes som en witch8221 bit (med Carbon Fiber-sykler som heksen). Jeg har eid to Look frames (555 og 585 Ultra) og begge er jevnt utmerket. De har mistet stivheten deres med alderen, har blitt knust i stykker, og er jevnt overlegen til alt annet jeg har stilt ned før eller siden. Hvis du liker stål sykler, kjøp deretter stål sykler. Vær så snill og prøv å overbevise alle andre om at de tar feil for å kjøre karbon. Alle feilene nevnt gjennom svarene er bare that8230. Karbon er et teknologisk overlegen materiale og en hel del lettere. Det faktum at noen trenger å gå til ubemannede tiltak (lese en hel del penger på kjøp av lette deler) for å få tilsvarende (ikke helt) vektbesparelser på en karbonbike sier alt. BTW, jeg eier også en 8220custom Ti8221 sykkel. Flott sykkel, men push kommer til å skyve, jeg vil ta tak i Look 585 hver gang. Ti-sykkelen føles bare treg i forhold til den (samme komponenter, etc.). Bare min .02 Nru 8230 Gjør leksene min venn. Tilbring mer tid på å lese enn å skrive. Trek utstedte ikke deres karbon til AFTER Trek spurte dem om det. Ta en titt på Trek-karbonnivåene: en hvit prikk, en BLACK DOT, en RED DOT. Dette er ingen tilfeldighet, Columbo. Hei, Interessant artikkel, interessante kommentarer. Jeg klarer ikke å forstå hvordan tilpassede stålrammer er god verdi når en byggherre er sitert som å tilbringe 100 timer per ramme 8211 ved 40 timer (konservativ utladningsgrad for en bedrift) that8217s USD4000, jeg kan få en karbonramme med 105 for NZD3000, mindre på spesielle osv. Også, har en dårlig tilbake og ser på å oppgradere min seks år gamle Wheeler 7100 demping kvaliteter karbon appellerer til meg. Flott provoserende artikkel med noen veldig gode poeng. NASA, Formel 1 og Boeing bruker stål 8211 se på boltene og lagrene8230) Tenk at landingsutstyret er karbon Verdi er ikke absolutt. Kanskje tilpasset stål isn8217t er en flott 8216value82178230, men igjen ville det være særegent karbon for de kjære elskerne der ute, hvis Ferrari ringte deg og tilbød å lage deg en egendefinert F430 med favorittens spesifikasjoner og farge og designet det spesielt for din kropp og kjøring stil, og du kunne faktisk ha råd til det, ville du ikke ta det. Kanskje spørsmålet om å være et drevet valg som en toyota, er et poeng. Kanskje it8217s som det er laget for deg som betyr noe uansett materiale. BTW, jeg sjekket ut John Slawta8217s nettsted (Landshark rammer) og så den tilpassede rammen som Levi Leipheimer ba ham om å lage. Levi kan ri noen av de beste karboncyklene gratis og gjett hva han velger å kjøpe. Interesting8230 Den gode tingen om denne artikkelen er faktisk samtalen it8217s stimulert. Jeg har gammelt stål, moderne stål, all aluminium og alle karbon sykler. Jeg elsker hver sykkel for sine spesifikke egenskaper. Hver sykkel bringer et smil til ansikt når jeg rir 8211 fordi jeg elsker å ri. Og I8217m lukker ikke tankene om hva jeg rir. Jeg pleide også å ha 8220lemming8221 mentaliteten tilbake i mine racing dager. Jeg hadde det som var populært på den tiden. Nå kunne jeg bryr meg mindre hva noen trangt sykt sykkel wannabe mener. Hver fanatisk sport og hobby har de samme gruppene 8211 fordi det til tross for leketøy blir det brukt av mennesker. For meg har rammens materiale mer å gjøre med oppdraget til turen. Hei, George Hincapie har en veldig fin stål sykkel som han rider regelmessig bare for den rene glede av det, fordi det ikke er en racing maskin, jeg har en cf-sykkel fordi turen er så behagelig på hele dagsturen i fjellet, hvor vekten gjør en forskjell. Denne spesielle sykkelen har vinkler ikke mye annerledes enn det som pleide å bli kalt 8220sport tourers8221 8211 ikke en crit-racer vinklet ramme. Min gamle midten av 80-tallet Bridgestone det er en ekte stål klassisk sports turist. Men turen er mindre vertikalt kompatibel og bakre tri har mer flex enn mine andre sykler. TIG-variablene på TIG-variabeltykkelsen på slutten av 90-tallet på min Bianchi-cyklocross gir en veldig stiv sykkel som veier det samme som min tidlige 90-årige aluminiums Cannondale-benstråler (testet som den stiveste produksjonsrammen som ble laget 8211 og kjører som den). Hvert materiale har it8217s sted. Det er mange variabler som skaper overlapping for hver type. Tilpasset stål har sitt sted, spesielt for randonee-ryttere som ønsker det klassiske topprøret-lengre enn setetrøret. As for the comment that there are no worthy steel bikes being made 8211 that is because you hang out at a shop that focuses on racing only 8211 not giving the customer what is best for them. I see those bikes being sold by the-soon-disillusioned-customer on Craigslist every day. Pick your LBS carefully. For instance, the Raleigh Clubman is a very nice riding steel bike available at LBS in most cities of any size. Very classic look, too, yet with modern components. Very smooth ride. As a juxtaposition, the other day I was at my local shop when a woman came in with her Lemond steel ride from the late 90s. She was tired of the stiff ride and wanted to try a Cannodale cf like her friends ride. She really knows her bikes, riding 200 miles a week in the summer and done a number of bike tour vacations. The shop didn8217t have a 48 cm frame in stock for her, but did have the same model in aluminum with cf fork. She loved the ride, rode it 3 times that afternoon, and then agreed with us that she had no need of a cf bike 8211 which with the same setup would cost 350 more for nothing gained. She got the bike fitted the next day and rode away smiling. For me, that proved the point that great engineering is More Important than the material of the bike. There are cf bikes that ride like crap for anyone except a Cat racer. There are steel and aluminum bikes (and Ti) of the same vein. And there are great riding bikes made in each material. Know your mission and buy accordingly I8217m drawn to the value of craftsmanship and unique frames as opposed to mass produced, but the author8217s claims about the longevity of steel have to be questioned, thus raising some doubt on his other assertions. My friend who has a beautiful custom steel bike just showed me the rust spots coming from the inside of the seat tube to the outside, while commenting he expected to be forced to get a new bike in another year or two. Whenever he gets caught in the rain he has to take his seat post out and do a gun barrel-type swabbing job to dry out the inside of the seat tube in order to preserve the bike for as long as possible. He rides constantly, but maybe it won8217t be an issue for you if you don8217t get wet very often. Well, this debate has gotten interesting, and has covered most of the interesting points, but not all of them, so I8217ll weigh in. For the record, I presently own 2 carbon bikes (a cheap lugged one, and a Cervlo R3 SL), and a custom titanium mountain bike (700c as well, for that matter). Custom geometry makes a lot of sense for mountain bikes, and not so much for road bikes. A mountain bike8217s handling represents a whole slew of trade-offs an order of magnitude more complex than the geometric decisions made when designing a road bike. When8217s the last time you saw a road bike with much of anything other than a 73 degree headtube (in normal sizes, of course, where altering headtube angle and fork rake is not necessary) Ok, pretty much never. Road bikes, on the other hand, don8217t really have weight-distribution-dependent steering, nor do they have funny terrain-specific handling trade-offs brought on by steerer angle, or any of that other all-terrain nonsense. Unless you8217re a freak, custom road geometry makes little to no sense, and for the record, I8217m 6821778243 with a 39.58243 inseam, and ride off-the-shelf compact road geometry with no problems. Go invest in a fitting, not custom geometry. Now, on to materials If you8217re a serious recreational rider and have some dosh you8217d care to be parted from, titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making). Barring that, you should be riding aluminum if you8217re more interested in keeping your budget down. FEA-driven hydroformed frame members just don8217t exist in the ferrous bike world last I checked (at least not to the extent that they do in aluminum-land). Short of titanium or true high-end carbon, nothing can touch aluminum for its ability to be purpose-tuned at minimal cost. If you8217re not racing and want some ride comfort, you should invest in a forgiving carbon fibre seatpost and kiss your Fred-dom goodbye and buy some 25c (or larger) tires, rather than pretending that frame material can make anywhere near the same magnitude of difference (there are some exceptions to this in carbon-land, but they cost lots of money). And on to the truly hardcore: If you8217re actually racing, you probably already know about comfort trade-offs. Ti and steel are simply not options, as nobody8217s managed to make a titanium or steel frame transfer power as efficiently and handle as precisely as aluminum alloy or carbon fibre can (some titanium gets sort-of close, but not close enough). If you8217re on a budget, you8217re buying aluminum with the stiffest bottom bracket you can find, and maybe considering some sort of aerodynamic trickery (there8217s a reason the Cervlo Soloist Team conquered so many races before the competition clued in). If you8217re not, there is absolutely nothing that can match the power transfer of a carbon frame without being a 6-pound-plus aluminum brick, at which point you might as well just stick some cranks and drop bars on an old engine block. While we8217re talking carbon, let8217s not get carried away. Trek are great-quality frames, and if you8217re the type of racer whose legs could whip up a good meringue they8217re damn light (but so are lots of others 8212 honestly, and this is personal preference, I8217d take a Scott instead if I were in the market for such a bike) and suitable for your riding style, but if you8217re the type of rider who cares how stiff their crankarms are, Trek quickly falls off the radar and frames like the S-Works Tarmac, Cannondale8217s top-of-the-line, and most of Cervlo8217s offerings (and a good number of others, I8217m sure, so don8217t take my as arrogant enough to think I8217ve found all the good frames) quickly find their way to the surface. If you8217re really, really curious where the numbers lie here, Specialized has been kind enough to provide some test figures for most of the top-notch products out there (with a few conspicuous omissions, and some not-so-subtle tipping of the 8220scales8221 on their stiffness-to-8221module8221-weight comparison) here: specializedOAMEDIApdfcatalogs08FACTBroch. pdf (page 7) And on that note I8217m out for the night. I hope some of this has been at least somewhat informative as to the realities of bike frame trade-offs these days. Incidentally, I didn8217t buy the R3 SL for its weight. Great post Paul. Can I ask, what is the life of an aluminium racing frame compared to carbon racing frame Quote from Paul: 8220If youre actually racing, you probably already know about comfort trade-offs. Ti and steel are simply not options, as nobodys managed to make a titanium or steel frame transfer power as efficiently and handle as precisely as aluminum alloy or carbon fibre can8221 Sounds more like opinion than fact. Check out the Pegoretti Big Leg Emma to see a perfect example of steel being more than adequate to deliver power: I agree with the claim that you can get more stiffness out of a carbon or Al frame for a given weight but who said stiffer is always better Numbers from Specialized or any other company are usually biased and I8217m reminded of the old saying, 8220there are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics.8221 Also reminds me of an article from Keith Bontrager a while back who demonstrated why having a super stiff BB is NOT energy efficient in all cases. Look it up8230 some simple trig explains it and Sean Kelly on his flexy Vitus back in the day is living proof8230 Here8217s an experiment to try: Jump up and down as high as you can on a concrete sidewalk for about 5 minutes. See how you feel. Now do the same on a trampoline. Knees feel any different Perhaps the analogy isn8217t perfect but here8217s the point: just because something is unyielding underneath you doesn8217t make it more efficient or enjoyable to ride. The debate continues8230 Interesting frame, but I still doubt (I haven8217t ridden one, but if I can I will) it8217s addressed BB stiffness. Those stays will be stiff under compression, but there8217s nothing there to prevent the BB shell from flopping all over the place (just like my cheap carbon frame does, and just like a Trek Madone did when I took one out for a test). I8217ve certainly ridden both carbon and aluminum frames with stays that big, and they don8217t manage to do a lot, even though aluminum should in most cases provide more stiffness in the same external cross-section, as it8217s necessarily thicker-walled. Carbon lets you do clever things like building a conic (or similar, see S-Works Tarmac SL2 and most of Cervlo8217s offerings for examples) seattube, which is the primary member capable of resisting BB flex. You can also brace the BB shell itself from a great distance with a big blob of a teardrop-crosssection 8220bottom bracket8221. This is flat-out impossible with any drawn or extruded metal tube products. Sufficient (but still not equal) BB stiffness can be accomplished in aluminum, at a moderate weight penalty, whereas any fabrication of steel or even titanium tubing would be freakishly heavy to accomplish the same thing (if you could form them like you can carbon the story would be entirely different). As to Specialized8217s numbers8230 they tell a funny story. They8217ve obviously tried very hard to make their frame look fantastic (duh), but notice how they cannot for the life of them shake the R3 from nipping at their heels, and how they8217re forced to use a proprietary crankset with integrated BB to finally 8220beat8221 it on 8220module weight8221 so they can claim they have better stiffness-to-weight (which they don8217t). And of course, take the 8220vertical compliance8221 number with a grain of salt: Cervlo goes around pimping their thin seatstays as being dramatically more compliant (very much like what Specialized is trying to tout), but the reality is that most of the perceived ride quality of their frames ACTUALLY comes from frame flex at the seat cluster, which the thin top ends of the stays do affect. 8220Custom geometry makes a lot of sense for mountain bikes, and not so much for road bikes.8221 Thats a pretty silly thing to say. It would also be news to an awful lot of people. Since people tend to be on their road bikes for very long periods of time the slightest sizing errors can cause all sorts of issues. Head tube angle How about top tube and seat tube length Sizing can give you weirdly long stems which gives the bike an unbalanced feeling as can other compensations made by fitting. 8220titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making).8221 Yes I prefer titanium. Power transfer is a bunch of baloney and that has been proven time and again. Neither my Litespeed Vortex nor my Moots have any creaking issues. 8220Specialized has been kind enough to provide some test figures8221 I8217m sure they have. Oh, and one more thing: I8217ll certainly conceded that riding on the flat or on mild rollers is pretty much indifferent to stiffness, as handily demonstrated by many successes on not-so-stiff frames. But, I8217m a big guy and climbing already sucks enough for me that I like to have as little extra fatigue from hammering up a steep hill as physically possible. 8220Since people tend to be on their road bikes for very long periods of time the slightest sizing errors can cause all sorts of issues. Head tube angle How about top tube and seat tube length Sizing can give you weirdly long stems which gives the bike an unbalanced feeling as can other compensations made by fitting.8221 I take it you8217re buying custom road forks then, too. This is a big silly argument: A road bike needs to fit you well when it8217s pointed in a more-or-less straight line, because it8217s usually pointed in a more-or-less straight line (even in fast switchbacks you aren8217t doing the kind of ridiculous crap that technical singletrack can incur). 10mm of stem length doesn8217t make or break a road bike8217s ability to be piloted down whatever course you8217ve chosen, but it does on a mountain bike. So having the - right - top tube length and whatever else within a very small margin on a mountain bike determines whether you can have both correct fit AND useful handling in a wide variety of situations. And what8217s this silliness about head tube angles being part of custom fit When8217s the last time anyone found a good reason for building a frame (read: normal road frame, not a TT frame or something) with ANYTHING other than a 73degree43mm-rake fork, OTHER than eliminating toe overlap on smaller frames The need for anything like this is a crock, as road bikes are generally ridden on surfaces without any substantial curvature, and they don8217t have various amounts of front suspension travel (not to mention rear-axle-to-perpendicular-to-steerer distances) which then go on to affect steerer angle, front wheel canter for deflection purposes, and fork trail, and whatnot. Road bikes, for all intents and purposes (this doesn8217t cover CX bikes, obviously) are ridden on FLAT surfaces, and therefore do not need to take into account a particular rider8217s preferred range of handling compromises as terrain does such interesting things as changing steering trail, as - does - happen on a mountain bike. Yes, road bikes - do - need to 8220fit8221 better for comfort purposes, because you usually ride them longer and their tires are less forgiving and whatever, but unlike a mountain bike virtually all of these cases can be cured by moving your seat and bars around. As far as titanium goes, you might as well go custom because for once you8217re looking at a product that - is - manufactured as if it were custom whether you choose to specify custom geometry or not (at least as far as buying Ti from this continent goes). Well, so far we8217ve established that custom size framing makes no sense whatsoever. It is neither necessary for fit8230nor is it cost effective. Secondly we8217ve extablished that, if durability is the issue, then titanium is the only choice. All the others have lifespans8230including steel which rusts. If titanium is too expensive, then aluminum is the best choice for the serious enthusiast who rides hard on the weekends but doesn8217t necessarity race. Aluminum can be hydroformed into exotic and purposeful shapes inexpensively. It is relatively durable, will not rust, can be repainted easily and does not require the tender-loving care treatment of Carbon Fiber. Furthermore, Aluminum can be interfaced with Carbon Fiber components, such as a seatpost and fork, to give a rather excellent ride without all the headaches. For the weekend enthusiast who likes to hammer down once in a while, aluminum will outperform steel or titanium, given its stiffness. And lastly, due to the exotic and purposeful shapes8230it has the most style. And since it is indeed a metal, it offers the full lustre of its paint8230unlike CF which does indeed look a bit plastic. Its good to have thought this all through. So while steel may be real8230aluminum really is a steal Paul: 8220If youre a serious recreational rider and have some dosh youd care to be parted from, titanium is the obvious choice. For racing purposes the power transfer is effectively crap, but the ride quality, durability, low maintenance, etc. is an awesome trade-off (give or take all the fun creaking noises Titanium is so famously good at making).8221 Eerrr8230yes and no. Yes Ti8217s power transfer is crap in 8220most cases8221. No I out sprint a friend of mine 2 days who has the same (or more) leg power who rides a CAAD 9, i8217m riding a Lynskey R3308230 how about that for validation Agree that High end Alu and carbon beats Ti hands down in the power transfer department but it8217s a relative issue because a lot of other things come into play that will affect the out come. Nope8230 my R330 don8217t creak either8230 Yeah, yeah, guys. they don8217t creak if you put Ti Prep everywhere you8217re supposed to (my Ti MTB only makes funny noises in its drivetrain, thankfully8230 errr, wait that8217s not something to be thankful for8230) Back to racing8230 it8217s not so much that a flexy bottom bracket reduces how much instantaneous power you can lay down on the road, as you might expect. The effect is that, including the wind-up and unwind, each pedalstroke takes a longer time, and your muscles start to suffer from it. In conditions like serious climbing or extreme headwinds, where you have a substantial deceleration between pedalstrokes, you do actually 8220lose8221 some power to the frame wind-up. Accordingly, your top speed in a sprint is unlikely to change (and you8217re probably spinning pretty high RPMs anyways), but you8217ll lose some time on any moderately long climb, and I doubt you can - hold - that sprinting speed for quite as long, as every pedalstroke sustaining your top speed is taking just a little more out of your legs than it otherwise could be, nor can you reach that speed quite as fast as you could with less frame wind-up. Of course, if you8217re not racing none of this matters, at all. You take a rest, and then you kick your buddy8217s butt again, and declare yourself victorious before any difference in muscle fatigue might try to tip the tables the other way. And hey, his CAAD9 has got to be heavier than good Ti, so that8217s probably tiring him out just as much (if you8217re not on level grade all the time) 8212 as well as the much harsher ride reducing his power output through fatigue. Quotes from Paul: 8220Interesting frame (Pegoretti Big Leg Emma), but I still doubt (I havent ridden one, but if I can I will) its addressed BB stiffness. Those stays will be stiff under compression, but theres nothing there to prevent the BB shell from flopping all over the place8221 8220whereas any fabrication of steel or even titanium tubing would be freakishly heavy to accomplish the same thing8221 I8217m curious, how big are you Paul The Pegoretti frame has a 32mm seat tube and what looks like a 35mm down tube so you can8217t be serious when you say that BB will be flopping all over the place. For those who remember former 7-Eleven powerhouses like Davis Phinney and Sean Yates they did perfectly fine with 28.6mm seat tubes. Besides, from a power transfer standpoint the huge chainstays make more of a difference than any side-to-side BB flex would. I8217ll admit, to get a super stiff frame made out of steel it would exceed 4.5 lbs and probably over 4 lbs for Ti but if a rider is that big how the heck does 5 lbs or less of metal qualify as freaklishly heavy. How much extra weight is a water bottle, like 1 12 lbs Whoa, better not carry a Camelback8230 Paul: 8220Accordingly, your top speed in a sprint is unlikely to change (and youre probably spinning pretty high RPMs anyways), but youll lose some time on any moderately long climb, and I doubt you can - hold - that sprinting speed for quite as long, as every pedalstroke sustaining your top speed is taking just a little more out of your legs than it otherwise could be, nor can you reach that speed quite as fast as you could with less frame wind-up. Of course, if youre not racing none of this matters, at all. You take a rest, and then you kick your buddys butt again, and declare yourself victorious before any difference in muscle fatigue might try to tip the tables the other way. And hey, his CAAD9 has got to be heavier than good Ti, so thats probably tiring him out just as much (if youre not on level grade all the time) as well as the much harsher ride reducing his power output through fatigue.8221 Interesting point but like i8217ve said earlier, it8217s got a lot to do with other things that comes into play8230 Design body weight is the first to come into mind. I8217m not a big guy, 173cm at 73kg riding a 54cm top tube length R330 Ti frame is more than capable to handle my weight and output. In addition to that, the design of the R330 has bucket loads of tube butting, shape manipulation and different tube diameter sizes strengthening different areas of the frame8230. all this has got nothing to do with quality Ti because CAAD9 is the top frame in Cannondale8217s alu range hence frame material becomes equal in their own comparison. Back to Racing Riding method has got a lot to do with how the frame reacts as well. A musher will appreciate a super stiff frame because they can gain more from a more 8220compliant8221 frame, the same goes for crit racers but for long haul races, most will appreciate a slightly compliant frame because your body will perform better from not getting a beating by road bumps and vibrations. If you race long distance enough, you8217ll know that spinning (high RPM) is much better than mushing and by spinning (assuming that you know how to cycle in circular motion rather than pushing your paddles, a lot of ppl don8217t realize they don8217t cycle the right way) does not create that wind-up and unwind motion so much to a degree that it8217ll change the angle of the BB to sap your energy. Most of us will tackle a long climb or a steep climb by spinning high RPM or high gear, i doubt any of us has legs of contador or Andy8217s to mush our way up a hill. Back to Racing Riding method has got a lot to do with how the frame reacts as well. A musher will appreciate a super stiff frame because they can gain more COMPARED TO A compliant frame8230. the same goes for crit racers8230 Regarding the new stainless steels: For those who don8217t know, the tensile strength for 953 is through the roof If the tubing manufacturers make some tubes in more moderate thicknesses (858 instead of 747 or 636) these things would be pretty dent-proof as well. Sure these things may never go into the sub 2 lb category but if we8217re talking the difference between carbon and steelTi frames being around 2 lbs then is it really that bad to have an 18-19 lb road bike I guess I must be old school too from the days when a 21 lb steel Pinarello was a standard pro-level bike8230 This article made some good points but it forgot too many. The reason for buying steel bikes goes beyond this. Durability is hands down better but not just from crashes or mistakes loading or shipping the bike but also from a fatige standpoint. That silly carbon bike doesn8217t ride the same as it did when it is brand new. Carbon breaks down and loses its stiffness overtime. The steel or ti bike on the other hand will ride pretty much the same 50 years and 100,000 miles down the road. The other reason is comfort. You think that carbon is comfortable, ha I say. Try riding it over on a chip seal or harsh road compared to steel or ti. The big difference steel and ti flex not merily absorb. Don8217t mistake the dead feel on a fairly smooth road for comfort, steel is going to give you some feedback and connection with the road its the rough road that is what is going to matter at the end of the day. I love specialized as a brand and the Roubaix is hands down the best riding carbon bike out there but if you take the same vertical compliance test specialized does to compare to other carbon bikes and do that compared to Serrotta, IF, or Waterford that is built for even a 200 lbs rider. The results will surely amaze you. Lets face it most of us don8217t race at least not seriously and at the end of the day would you really rather have a bike that weighs 1 pound less or something that will last and be more comfortable. This is a pointless debate. It8217 all about choices and the fact that there are so many option available to the bike-buying public is a good thing. The fact is that there are examples of wonderful bikes made from all sorts of different materials just as there are truckload of crap bikes made from all sorts of different materials. Over the years I have had many thousands of miles on bikes made from lugged steel, tigged steel, bonded aluminum, welded aluminum, 32.5 Ti, 64 Ti, lugged carbon, and monocoque carbon. The truth is, there was never any appreciable difference in my speed, comfort, or enjoyment once I got them set up right and got used to the handling. Tire pressure, saddle, pedals, and drivetrain setup are really where it8217s at8211 get fit right, run quality components and you will like your ride no matter what the frame is made from. Thanks Twain Great links. There8217s actually a company down here in San Diego (Escondido) called KVA (kvastainless). They8217ve been making stainless steel tubing since the 19508242s for the military and for wheelchairs. Their stuff is top shelf, but not as well known in the bike industry as Reynolds and True Temper. They8217ve started delving into frame building, and I8217m planning on doing a follow up article about the virtues of stainless steel in a bicycle application. Since KVA has been working with this material longer than both Reynolds and True Temper, and are new to the bike world, it might be very interesting to hear their perspective. Kurt G. implies that Steelman Cycles embraces carbon construction, I don8217t believe this is the case. Steelman (Brent Steelman) still makes awesome steel frames. His carbon frames were an experiment, not even on his web site. The only carbon parts he offers are carbon fiber seat and chain stays and forks, specifically upon request. His work is simply the best. My frame exhibits tremendous craftsmanship. The shaping of the tubing, the geometry, the fit, and nobody lays down a better tig weld in my opinion. Want lugs He builds those frames too. Checked out that KVA Stainless website and spoke to some guys there. Their new tubeset is apparently stronger than OX Platinum but imagine it in stainless The price looks to be more cost effective than Ti and the weight8230 well, check out the website. They8217ve got a photo of a frame hanging on a produce scale. If I8217m reading it right and it8217s not BS it looks to be around the 2 lb mark Could this be the next Ti or Carbon killer Oh and the tubes are 100 Made in the USA if that matters8230 Just replaced my full carbon fork with steel. Why Because I have a steel frame. Columbus triple butted foco. I figured, If the bikes steel, the fork should be, too. It8217s nice to look down and see a steel fork. Also replaced a 200 gram saddle with a brooks. So now my bike weighs 1 12 pounds more. I8217m 215. I plan on getting down to 180. I like the feel of the steel fork more than the full carbon. Also, I coulden8217t get past the babying I had to do with the carbon. Don8217t over tighten, Don8217t scratch, Don8217t clean with this, Don8217t get grease on the steerer tube, Check constantly for hairline cracks, If hit, Internal damage unseen may have taken place etc, etc, etc. Steel fork maintenace, If there is no rust, your good to go. Same with frames. Seinere. Oh, and don8217t use a stack height of more than one inch on carbon steerer. By the way, just took bike out with new steel straight bladed road fork which replaced a full carbon. Here8217s my review: Steel allowed a little more road buzz. Not bad at all, just a little more. Bumpy roads, steel fork softened hits more then the carbon did. Big hits, like pot holes, steel did better. Down hill, steel tracked like it was on a rail, the carbon fork would shimmy if I lifted my hands off the bars. That could be from the steel fork having a slightly slacker head angle. Also, I noticed the steel fork flex, not side to side, just in and out, some. I8217m thinking, the carbon just stayed rigid and stiff when the steel one gave a little. Overall, not a huge difference either way, just a little more piece of mind knowing the steel fork probably won8217t snap off becuae my stack height is one inch, or I hit the brakes really hard, ( Go to busted carbon for that story). As for the weight difference, didn8217t notice at all. Of course, I ride with a camel back with anywhere from 50 to 80 ounces of H2O at a time. Hope this was helpful. Seinere. I do not race nor have a custom bike for years my ride was a Raleigh Gran Prix from the 708242s, which gave me tens of thousands of miles of touring enjoyment, until I backed my car over it(I have ADD, what can I say) My replacement is a Raleigh Technium 440 from the middle 821780s, and surprise It8217s better than my GP was in its best days. Advances in technology are certainly real, but what satisfies any individual rider is, well, individual. I may have missed it, but the writer didn8217t mention that while frame weight difference may be 50 steel vs. carbon, the difference between frame PLUS rider is almost negligible. Want a lighter ride Lose a few pounds and ride the same bike. thanks a lot for putting the bike plus rider weight diference on the table. make the caculation i8217m 195 pounds, plus 3 pounds waterbotles, plus 1 pound shoes plus one pound clothes, let8217s say few things in a backpack. lets say around 200 pounds. and let take a verry light carbon bike for 15 pounds and a not so light bike for 21 pounds. so one side we have 215 pounds the other 221 pounds the diference is 3 percent increase. fucking 3 percent i8217m 195 pounds and i could get down to 170 with an ideal weight and a good ( verry good tranninglong bike rides and diet and no more beer ) so the lose of wight woul be 221 before and 191 after diference of 16 percent. so as the harvey allen just sayd, if you want a lighter ride, loose some weigt. If you8217re comparing apples to apples then the difference between a carbon bike and a steel one with the same parts and wheels is more like 2-3 lbs. So 215 versus 218 lbs That8217s 1.4 Alright, so having invested in a Cervelo R3 SL, and finally having ridden it since last posting here, I must disagree even more strongly with the touting of steel as the ultimate comfort frame material. I8217ve ridden plenty of steel frames, from 821770s Raleighs through brand-new bespoke Italian names. And then, on Sunday, I discovered it8217s possible to have a road bike you can sit down on - ALL OF THE TIME-, barring of course the need to lift the wheels over some road hazard. I also discovered that the stiffest bricks of aluminum road frames I8217ve ever ridden were pathetic wet noodles in comparison to this 2-pound beast. There seem to be some people going around making foolish generalizations about high-end carbon. I8217ve ridden top-end Madones. While they8217re light, and the front end is just great at incredibly high speeds (the minimum requirements for a Tour-grade frame), they aren8217t in the same ballpark as far as ride quality or hair-trigger power transfer. Don8217t go around assuming a Jaguar is a reasonable basis for drawing performance conclusions about an Aston Martin, ja (This also applies to carbon forks8230) September 1, 2009 matthieu: 8220an buy a good sadle, that s where your ass is all rid long 8221 Well, not quite. My ass is shaped all wrong and I8217ve yet to find a saddle that8217s really comfortable on its own. However, I8217ve just recently found that I can run damn near any piece of crap saddle on my new(er 8212 I have two now) carbon frame (certainly not on the old one though) and NOT have to deal with the usual discomfort from whatever saddle I8217ve decided to put up with for the day. You8217re bang-on about weight. Beyond keeping the weight of the bike closer to the ground and gyroscopic effects of cornering on heavier wheels (or likewise when dealing with a crosswind 8212 try some light hoops in a crosswind and tell me it8217s not a world of improvement), bike weight doesn8217t mean squat. It means something if you8217re racing, and that8217s it. Even if you8217re lagging slightly behind on club rides it8217s probably because your legs or bike fit suck, not because your bike weighs more than the addict that8217s parked beneath the spandex-clad ass up ahead that8217s slowly distancing itself from you8230 It8217s getting a ways away from the frame materials discussion, but let8217s talk for a moment about buying speed (I8217m ignoring obvious things here, like clipless pedals): First and foremost, if you can8217t do it reasonably well yourself, get a professional fitting (I haven8217t, and at this point could probably do with the marginal improvement it would represent), as this will not only give you better biomechanical performance but will make you more comfortable, and a more comfortable rider can put out more power (unless you8217re Lance). Second, ditch the backpack, tshirt, baggy shorts, etc. and get some lycra. Aerodynamics mean everything if you8217re actually intent on moving forward at a higher speed. Further to that, invest in some deeper rims if you haven8217t already 8212 I won8217t run anything shallower than about 25-30mm, for any purpose. And don8217t forget some tires that not only roll well at a useful pressure (given your body weight), but that let you hold that speed through corners 8212 right now I run Conti GP4000S and they suit this purpose well. Next, go ride harder, and discover the subtle and not-yet-significant (until you get in better shape) ways in which your bike compromises your performance potential here and there, and then MAYBE consider upgrading further once you can spank at least some of the Cat38242s in your club. If you want to know why I8217m still bored by steel and titanium as road frame materials, go take a top-end S-Works or Cervlo R-series or Scott or something similar out for a test ride, instead of blindly insisting that steel8217s better (as well as titanium) because it rides nicer than some arbitrary, expensive, and boring 8220high-end8221 carbon frame. There8217s expensive carbon, and then there8217s good expensive carbon, and there8217s an incredible amount of distance between the two. real steel real racers The new Steel is the best period, ask any knowledgeable frame builder, ti is a close second, carbon just a another way to get an empty wallet and short life bicycle but i guess if one has more money than the crown jewels and would like to look quite fast while getting launched off the back Peloton like a hot rock. thats ok at lest you8217ll look like a pro. sure right oh you paid more than the national budget for the last nine years and that plastic bicycle you just bought for a Googol ( A googol is a large number. that is a one followed by one hundred zeros )so you paid a ton lollies and what did you get for all those simoleons spent a ill fitting, harsh riding bicycle that has a short lifespan. man you only live once so why end up in Recession, save those lollies for later and discover real cycling, meet my best mate Mr modern steel unlike Mr plastic or carbon 8220alias Mr carbon plastic fibber8221 (notice that i spelled how it should be written)(1) My best mate Mr modern steel will give a quite smooth and predictable ride in all cycling conditions from worst to best.(2)you wont need worry about ones health when Mr plastic fibber frame expire date comes up. because he8217s not up to the task at hand, because my best mate Mr modern steel will be here long after were gone, so no worries about hospital mates he8217s quite dependable.(3)cycle fit is very important and Mr plastic fibber offers no proper sizing whilst Mr modern steel has the proper fit only limited to the master cycle builder. (4) losing all them pints off ones belly and training proper will have a greater effect that saving a few grams off with Mr plastic fibber (5)All the lollies that one has saved by riding Mr modern steel you could finely get rid of those quite daft looking spandex jean look cycling shorts and give the dustman the quite large and ridiculous looking cloth covered styrene foam helmet. Regards from father time steel December 16, 2009 Typical riderracer since 1986. I bought Aluminum in 1986 and 2010. Carbon in 2009, 2010 and 2011. Ti for one year. Steel for about 6 years, etc82308230.I would say Aluminum is the worst. Harsh, fast and then somehow dead, and even a nice fork and wheelset won8217t get it to the top of the list. Ti was ok, nothing special. steel would feel the best at times (super smooth, stable in descents, and just loved to cruise at 19 mph forever8230.). Carbon early on was dead and only light, wasn8217t super impressed, unless i wanted to sprint or go straight up a hill. The newest carbon can do it all8230.carve turns, go super fast, destroy descents, cruise all day, and the RampD spent by top-end firms (millions the custom guys don8217t have) is worth it. Ridden a lot since the 808242s. The oldest road bike in my stable is a Columbus SL (steel for you newbies) from the mid 908242s I also have an aluminum bike from 2001. Now shopping for either Ti, Carbon or wood (no, seriously, wood, like from Renovo). I think. Or maybe it8217s back to steel. There8217s more to the ride than just the frame material. The Al frame I have feels lighter and zippier by far. I used to think about getting rid of my steel because I would always reach for the Aluminum when I went for a ride. Then I cleaned up my steel and gave it the same tires and pedals as my Aluminum and I find myself reaching for the good ol8217 steel bike just as often. The steel bike now feels smoother, more comfortable and more 8220connected. And it is ultra stable compared to the rather twitchy aluminum bike. I live in very hilly country, so you8217d think the aluminum would have an advantage for weight, but no. It seems like once I get cranking on the steel, I can just motor up them bumps. On the aluminum, I accelerate fast, it8217s light, it8217s responsive, but it feels like I lose momentum on every pedal stroke. I8217ve a daily commute with about 12-13km of hills and I8217ve timed my runs with both bikes and there is NO significant time difference nor do I feel any more tired with one vs. the other. BTW, I8217m also in very wet climate, the steel frame doesn8217t seem to have suffered too much considering its age. Rust isn8217t my problem here. For my next bike, I will probably ride what feels best and not worry about the material. If it8217s carbon, then fine. (Which, btw, don8217t look down too much on those mass produced carbon frames from Taiwan. Those guys in Taiwan have more experience doing carbon just-about-anything than anyone else in the world. Unless you have some mad genious with a psychic connection to carbon, it8217s highly unlikely anyone else can consistently do as good a job) Maybe you guys should divide yourselves between the clock-beaters the feel-riders. That is, if you8217re obsessed with super lightness and stiffness and acceleration and shedding grams uphill, you probably want carbon8230.with 1500 plus wheels. If you8217re part of the 99 of riders who are NOT serious racers, then you may care more about how the bike feels on the road over thousands of hours than how many fractions of a second you8217re saving in a race against the clock or others. I8217ve ridden and owned literally dozens and dozens of titanium, steel, carbon, and aluminum bikes over 25 years. Many top end metal bikes, and even some special production frames, have extraodinary, tuning-forklike road feel that most carbon frames, fast, light, and stiff as they are, can8217t match. You pays your money and you takes your choice8230. And yes, bits like wheels, tires, saddles, stems, bars, and, of course, forks, plus sizing amp setup, also matter hugely to bike feel and handling. I have a 20-year old Basso with Columbus tubing (steel) and a Trek Madone 4.5. The first time I rode the Trek, I was surprised how much it felt like the Basso. Smooth, low vibration, forgiving. But it is also lighter, stiffer, and does not corrode. Corrosion is the Achilles heel of steel. After riding extensively world-wide, I have used both steel and carbon bikes. When the road turns uphill, the weight penalty is soo severe that steel is never the preferred choice. Descending used to be much better on a steel bike, no longer. All day comfort is also very close when you put on different wheels. The amount of time lost from going up hills on a steel bike is soo significant that I will never consider 90 of steel bikes. The light ones are extremely expensive, and then you can get a carbon bike with better components for less. Plus it rains a lot in the world. It8217s not about the stiffness or being seconds faster, carbon will literally get you there hours earlier with the same effort. I8217ve seen a new carbon frame crushed in a Parks work stand while being assembled. I only own and ride Metal Aluminum, Steel and Ti bikes and Fly an Aluminum Airplane. I don8217t want anything composite except accessories. In 1959, I bought a URAGO bicycle from Roy8217s Cyclery on Pico Blvd. in LA and rode it until a drunk lady in a Caddy customized it so that it worked better in the dump. With the money that she gave me for not reporting it to the cops, I bought another bike a RAPHAEL GEMINIANI SPECIAL also from the same shop. It is equipped with Campy Gran Sport Deraillers, Shifters, Hubs, but had a Stronglite cottered crank with the bike I bought a TA alloy crank and bottom end set has Mafac brakes, and Ideale seat and is constructed of Reynolds 531. The first time that I rode this bike, I thought that I could fly. It was the greatest I rode it for 20 years and my son then took it over, jumped curbs, etc with it but through all that, is not damaged in any way. I made the huge mistake of repainting it, but am able to get the transfers from different sources. I am going to install the TA crank set, and after repainting it, plan to ride it again. I8217ve ridden the Italian steelies, but favor the ride of the old French bikes that I had URAGO and GEMINIANI. I am considering buying a carbon bike and possibly an aluminum bike, and have no idea how they ride or work, but I can say for certain that a good quality steel bike will hold up to just about anything that you can reasonably give it. I8217m glad to see the Bikes come back. I sincerely hope that you have fun riding I sure have George One very important aspect that I haven8217t seen in this excellent discussion is product life cycle. Where does it end up when you are done with it Carbon goes into landfill and sits there indefinitely. Metal (steel, aluminum, titanium) frames can easily be recycled into new consumer products. If you are informed about the environmental challenges we face, and I suspect Road Bike Review readers are, this is another reason to consider a steel frame. We8217re talking about tens of millions of bikes here. I ride a steel Gunnar wOuzo Pro fork (yes, carbon fiber), full Ultegra, Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. I ride it hard up and down in the steep Santa Cruz Mountains and love the hell out of it. Nice comment section here. I used to build custom steel frames using Columbus Nivacrom EL tubing. An EL frame Built up with Campy Record carbon 10s carbon bars seat posts fork etc. came in at 17.5lbs. Its obvious what was necessary to offset the weight, CARBON what a surprise. I still have one of my original EL frames WHenry James polished stainless lugs, built up as a sunday bike, but my main ride is a 55cm Lapierre off the shelf frame built up with Campy record and various other carbon components boy does this bike out ride the steel. I have logged over 9k in the past two years. I have cracked the right seat stay and fixed IT yes you can effectively repair carbon its not always a throw it away scenario nor is it rocket science8230I like my old steel but I ride seriously on carbon it gets the job done8230 Yes the guy that will be welding my new CX bike does meet NASA standards, his work on many of the Shuttles. Yes I ride a carbon road bike now, my cross bike is Aluminum and my 20 year old MTB is Ti (and being converted to single speed IF we can get the seat post out). I used to race on steel bikes, yes I broke 3 of them Broke a chain stay, unplugged a bottom bracket and broke a steerer (only the brake bolt was holding it together). I would buy into a argument like: it is a good product built locally by somebody you know not the other side of the planet. I also think this is a dangerous trap you have set, why get a new car, or computer or stove. Almost seems like you work for the UCI, if it was good enough for the Cannibal in 1972 it is good enough now. I8217m the 220lbs you8217re writing about, and I love my carbon fiber. I rode steel framed bikes, laughing at the prices people paid for carbon bikes. My steel bikes generally cost less than a 100 bucks. Then my little bro bought some carbon, I went faster, went uphill easier, never forgot the nimble feel of the carbon bike, but being 6821748243 tall I would have expended gynourmus bucharoos for a frame my size, so I bought aluminum wa carbon fork an rear triangle. Good bike, but then 6 years after my taste of fiber, I found my dreambike in cyberspace, on the computer, so it8217s from the future, basically it was sitting on ebay. After gettiing it (2010 Cannondale Synapse 6, entrylevel carbon), first ride I new this bike was waiting to find me, and I8217ve been in love since. Great handling, excellent breakaway speeds, superb ergonomics, there8217s a reason for everything, and all your energy goes to the rear wheel. I ride my CAnnondale to work, so I save 5.50 a day in gas alone, the 8 months I8217m able to ride it a year, it will take 2 years to pay for itself, but it8217s well worth it. When I pass a steel bike on the trail, they have a scissory sound to them, not the silent swoosh a carbon fiber bike has. One night I was behind a steel bike for a stint, and I watched him and could see how much energy was wasted, how much his bike was flexing for him to maintain the speed he was at, and the less energy it took to power my bike. I couldn8217t help but think if he was on a carbon bike I wouldn8217t be able to keep up with him. Steel cheap and easy. Why do you think all the 8220custom frame builders8221 start with steel. Cheap and easy ubiquitous regardless of any other qualities. For some reason these days steel frames are expensive when the ease of acquisition and machining are taken into account, I think the retro steel movement has driven the price up. I am ok with those myopic enough to think that steel rides better than carbon but I8217ll stick with carbon, so far the only frame material that I have ridden and not broken is carbon (I realize that could change at any moment). In this particular situation the advances in technology are real and produce results. In the last 55 years I have ridden Raleigh, Peugeot, Fuji, Gitane, Leader, Myata, Kabuki Pro road bikes and it was not until I got on my Marinoni custom framed roadie with full Campy group that I realized I had been riding 8216average8217 bikes that at best were only half as good and the Italian custom It was like going from NASCAR to F1, can8217t even describe the difference in words, you gotta ride one to realize what a custom Chromoly frame can do Whoo hoo. There is a lot here, fellas. I8217ve read 75 of what is here. Having just decided it is time to get out and ride again 8230 I am in the market for a smooth riding, predictable road bike. I m 6821718243 and have a 348243 inseam. (Yep, I am a tall gal.) I need to convert about 10 pounds of winter weight into muscle. I used to be a serious recreational rider but that was in college a about 20 years ago. My steel ten speed was a man8217s frame and being about twenty years younger 8230 Pedaling around on a college campus every day was no biggie. Today, I need to get on a bike and I want it to be as responsive and as predictable as possible while I am riding to get back into shape. I do not need falls or spills. And I don8217t want the bike to be super heavy because I already know that straining to keep moving does NOT motivate me to ride. I really hope to find abike to last at. east ten years or more. I work on computers for a living and write 8230 So I prefer not to have my arms be a shock absorber. My budget is 700 1000. I am mechanically inclined but love simplicity. The local bike shop is happy to sell me a Canondale Quick for 2000. But 8230. I maybe am a new re-entrant into serious recreational road bikes, but ouch Two grand is a BIG pile of cash in any economy. Any suggestions There are quite a few bike shops in my area 8230 but they are like the hardware stores 8230 They seem to cater mostly to fellas. I could use some recommendations on what to look for. Thanks Any argument against Carbon bikes should I think include some argument against Petrochemicals in manufacture. Carbon bikes are held together with a thick layer of Petrochemical resin I think this kinda makes a mockery of any ecological benefit derived from using a bike as an every day transport device, you may as well just still the petrol in you car every day. Is this what the Petrochemical company have in mind 8220You can8217t use transport without using petrol8221. Metal bikes can and do get recycled. Plastic bikes do not get recycled, its a simple equation. September 3, 2012 johnvile, I really don8217t think the amount of petrochemical used in manufacturing a bicycle is anything to get overexcited about. Even if everyone in the world had a bike, the difference is not likely to be planet-saving. I have a simple question for people who love to bash steel frame bikes: Which would you rather sit your ass on A frame built out of a material that has been used for at least 2,000 years and is tried, trued and tested multiple times and has a very high success rate at being durable, long lasting, easily repairable and very strong while economically affordable A frame built out of a material that has barely been used for maybe 25 years, (carbon fiber, or plastic bike frame as it has come to be known), where the repair for it is still more expensive than steel and the repair technology is a lot newer than the use of the material itself and has yet to be tried, trued and tested as steel has been A material that has barely been used for the past 200 years, that would be aluminum alloy where when it is dented or broken, forget about repairing it and when riding it you feel like you8217ve been beaten up by the end of the ride because aluminum sucks at absorbing road vibration I trust the mat erial that has been tested time and time again for the last 2,000 years. December 10, 2012 I was in a LBS a few months ago, and a young guy came in covered in bandages and an elbow brace 8211 much skin off and a fractured elbow. The steel fork on the 2nd hand steelie he had just bought broke in the first few hours. RUST never sleeps. It is difficult to know from outside, how much corrosionrust is in steel framesforks. December 10, 2012 Most shouldn8217t worry about the durability of their carbon frames if made within recent years. The resins they use to hold the fibers together have developed more than the carbon. The impact resistance of most manufacturers resins is phenomenal. The only exception to this is the super-lite models because they use so little resin. I choose Fuji8217s C4 carbon over the C10 model because of this, even though it was in my budget. December 16, 2012 Old Article but here is my 2 cents for those reading this. I own every material made for road bikes dating from the past twenty years. Steel rides very nice and is softer than aluminum but heavier. Aluminum is lighter but rides harsher then steel Carbon 20 year old is still doing well handles well but is very close to steel in ride. Carbon from 10 years ago smooth minor flex ok handling New Carbon handling great aero frames best thus far except firm ride. Titanium harsh ride to rigid looks good. December 25, 2012 I like to ride steel because at the end of the day it is easier on my wrists. My aluminum LeMond Toumalet beats me to death. Could be the Gatorskins tho. My Marinoni Special Columbus steel frame is the sweetest ride ever But it seems to be the wheels that make the biggest difference in finding extra speed, expecially the hubsbearingstire combo. My 10 year old Campy hubs laced to Mavic (Wheelsmith) rims are faster than my Eastons or my Aksium Race8217s over a 7 mile course on the same bike by a couple minutes. Something about Italian bearings if that8217s what are in the Campy hubs December 27, 2012 A properly built steel bike (for most people does not have to be custom) with good wheels, equals a great ride. As to rust - spray inside with waxoil. and it will never rust. Scratch - nail polish. Dent, unless you have bent the tube, means nothing. As to weight - Most of the high end carbon bike8217s REAL weight advantage (rotating weight, which is the only thing that counts) comes from 1,500 gram wheelsets, not the difference in frame weight. You want a three pound lighter bike - LOSE THREE POUNDS . Unless you8217re Contador, the rest is MARKETING. The important thing is to ride, eat properly and enjoy December 27, 2012 I forgot the most important consideration - FIT. FIT FIT. Worth spending a few on getting a fit session, or join a club. I am sure you will find someone that knows how to properly adjust your fit. There are many great sites which point the way. By the way, I built frames in the sixties and seventies for serious racers all the way up to Olympic road bikes. Good used steel frames abound on Ebay. I8217ve bought my share Merckx corsa extra, Cinelli super corsa, even a Richard Sachs. None cost more than 900 and were all in nearly showroom condition. If they are made from Columbus SL SLX, Reynolds 853, Trutemper, they should be fine, as long as they are not bent. February 2, 2013 I8217ve put 4,000 miles on my Rocky Mountain ST Solo Classic road bike. It has a modern steel frame and carbon fiber fork. Shifters, brakes, and drive train are Shimano Ultegra. The bike has an exceptionally smooth ride and lets me know what is meant by the words, 8220feel of steel.8221 On three occasions, I8217ve ridden the bike 148 miles per day over a Coast Range mountain pass. Saddle sore at the end of the day, yes, but the frame and fork did their part to make the rides comfortable for someone 70 years old.. 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